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86 COMMENTS

  1. 4:30 That's the way I've always thought about this. Injecting PED's is the equivalent of injecting liquid training, it's artificial tonnage that requires no recovery down time to produce muscular mass. This is why if you take 2 top level athletes, both genetic freaks and hard workers, and have 1 of the 2 on PEDs, the other one has very little chance of winning: the enhanced guy is getting extra stimulus from the drugs that not only require 0 work but also take virtually no time and have no recovery costs.

  2. If anyone is interested there's a YouTube channel called More Plates More Dates and he talks about the idea PED's for Olympics a little better. And just PED's in general.

  3. Hey man I like your channel and I think overall your a great ambassador for weightlifting, but this podcast is not good. It would be great if you guys discussed how to promote and grow the sport, make it more accessible, and fun for people to get into. instead its just a periodic conversation complaining and whining about doping in weightlifting and ped's. You both are influencers, you have a following, and know other influencer's why not use that to try and fix things? why not hold an event to your own standard that offer's prizes that would actually incentivize North American talent to get involved? why are there so many talented people in CrossFit? 400k check for the best plus tons of ways to make money if your national level or higher, the same goes for bodybuilding. I am looking forward to the movie but I dont think thats going to do it either, maybe a pumping iron (the original) style documentary following Mattie Rogers might do it, idk who else has charisma or broad appeal in weightlifting at the moment.

  4. Shouldn't the MRV bar actually increase as you progress in your training, with the MEV rising faster than MRV to eventually almost meet it? The animation would suggest that beginners are capable of higher training volumes (volume being weightXrepsXsets) than advanced athletes, which isn't the case. The gap between MEV and MRV decreases, but not the athlete's MRV.

  5. Hey guys so the graphic is a bit misleading. MRV shouldn’t come down as PED’s are introduced. This isn’t what Max said or meant. To be honest I posted this video because I thought max did a very good job of explaining, in an eloquent and typically not talked about way.

  6. Sorry for my unfamiliarity with your channels will the full interview or discussion be posted somewheres? Seems like there was a lot more (un) said, and I wanna hear it. Thanks for this fo sho tho. Great stuff.

  7. I really appreciate this channel, love your content, and even this understanding of MEVs and MRVs. However, I’m not a fan of insinuating that a national team is doing better because of doping without any proof. I understand that this is just a snippet of a conversation you both we’re having so you may not be thorough, but that is still a strong accusation.

  8. Not only in Weightlifting i guess, in every other Elite Sport, too. Bodybuilding, CrossFit Games or whatever. At those levels, PED´s are as normal as weightlifting shoes.

  9. line plots are not particularly good at representing categorical data (the drugs vs no drugs one) since the lines in between them don’t mean anything. a bar graph or something like that would have been much more appropriate. just wanted to throw that out there

  10. Just have to comment on this one-Were the persons in this study "newbies"?
    Maybe I missed it but what was the length of the study Max refers to?
    IMHO persons who trained "anywhere near correctly for several years" will make more
    progress and will be well past (or should be) anyone taking "PED'S" that does not train.
    According to an ex USSR sprint coach that I knew (and others like Charlie Francis Ben Johnsons coach)
    there is a way "best" to train on drugs(in order to take full advantage and it also depends on which drugs) and there is a way to train "naturally" (there is better "natural" pharmacology out there than most realize).
    The biggest distinction between "naturals" and "druggies" is VOLUME. "Intensity" as well but not as distinct.

  11. As if the US isn't doing this? Like, obviously China and Russia are using steroids and PED in its athletics programs, so is the US, so is any country with top athletes. Same goes for the slave labour comment btw, as if the US doesn't use slave labour. Guess that Cold War mentality never really went away

  12. Good discussion. I have a problem with the way MEV/MRV gets discussed because it reduces 'stress' to a number; it's either higher or lower but never measured as 'different'. When the area between MRV and MEV becomes razor thin, as Max outlined with advanced lifters, the introduction of new exercises or different training thresholds blows that gap back open.

  13. Wait so here I am, training and not taking drugs and I could have just took the drugs and sat at home playing videogames and made even better progress?!?! Wtf am I wasting my time for?

  14. I hate the study that max referenced because 1. It was a hypertrophy study, and 2. The method of measuring lean body mass and bodyfat they used doesn’t account for water weight so when the estrogen levels increased their water weight did as well and the increased water retention showed up as lean body mass when it shouldn’t have.

  15. I really don't give a shit about mrv mac. Since endurance existe for natties. If your endurance and résistance IS high you could get so strong naturly. Stronger than drug abusers. This IS why i don't really Care about mav mrv. Because why bother. What about just trainning hard for 5 days resting 4 days and maximising recovery on them and then repeat? And i think almost everyone IS a cheater. Try to change my mind.

  16. Everyone quotes that study but never mentions the water retention that comes with starting your first testosterone cycle, there was very little true muscle built until a significant amount of time into the cycle. Mev wasn't brought down to zero it was just weight gain from the drugs alone.

  17. It's so mind numbingly obtuse to not acknowledge that every country enables or turns a blind eye to its athletes using PEDs and act like this only occurs in China/Russia. Lance Armstrong ran one of the most sophisticated doping programs ever while riding for the United States Postal Service, if we acknowledge that no countries athletes are 'clean' maybe then we can start to actually have an honest discussion.

  18. Lu is on the Chinese team more than a decade due to his impeccable snatch form… He is probably one of the best snatchers of all time. Agreed that they all do PEDs but you gotta give him credit for the almost perfect technique as well, no need to simplify things and put them down…

  19. Ah, that study at 4:00 is always misunderstood. They took testosterone. It increases water retention. The 4th group gained extra water, which counts as basically "fake muscle" in test like DEXA, etc… This water retention obviously wont continue. And, the more important part… Did the 4th group get stronger, than the 1st group? Did they even get significantly stronger than the 2nd group?

  20. Guys I do appreciate the discussions and I have a request for a video:
    Research what has been the best progress of known natural lifters (in terms of bodyweight vs weight they can lift, maybe even muscle mass and body fat %) versus known unnatural lifters.
    I think what people need to see is a clear comparison of the best expectable results natural versus not natural. That will allow us to more accurately judge whether a particular person is natty or not.

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